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Is Guerrilla Fursuiting Okay?

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1:08 pm
January 4, 2012


Aerak

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Pack Wolf

posts 168

Post edited 1:27 pm – January 4, 2012 by Aerak


I'd like to have a discussion about guerrilla fursuiting.  Incase someone isn't aware of the reference, Guerrilla fursuiting is a term given to people who costume in public places and businesses, without giving any notice of what they are doing.

 

What is your opinion on the subject?  Are you for it or against it?  And why?

 

(Given the recent discussion on the mnfurs.org forums concerning the media and the public''s perception of the fandom, I figured this was a relevant discussion to have.)

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2:01 pm
January 4, 2012


SikeRedWolf

Rosemount

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posts 90

I have to say that I feel it depends. I'll fursuit at the renfest and not really mind cause well…lots of people are in costumes and stuff. And I dont mind going to sledding hills and what not. I dont mind photo days outside of Como zoo either. But I know people that go to schools, go to sporting events ect and will fursuit and Im quite a bit more reluctant for that. Its more because it's a courtesy to the establishment or to those participating/performing. If I'm there in a fursuit, I gather the attention ect. It's taking away profits, or attention from something that relies on it for business. I understand how some people like to go out and fursuit at a store like Walmart, but Id rather not be 'tossed' out due to their rules. I just find its easier to avoid conflict. besides, I like being outside more anyway!

2:48 am
January 5, 2012


Procyon

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Getting Frequent Poster Miles

posts 255

Context is key to this issue.  Also, I'm guessing that to understand this conversation I suggest everyone read the Taboo thread as these issues (as well as some others) are also being discussed over there.

Guerrilla fursuiting: I'm going to say it is a bad idea but with a very weird stipulation;  I take issue with the use of the word Guerrilla fursuiting and what it means.  

 

To truly be guerrilla means the use unorthodox, unexpected, unplanned execution to extract maximum surprise and effect.

This should not be our goal as a general rule.

Our objective is not to be "out of place"

Our objective is to show that what we are doing is no weirder than dressing up as a Klingon, Sailor scout, jesters and peasants, superhero, Grim Reaper etc. like the costumes we see in other types of Fandom.  

With that being said, there are times, as accepted as some of the above outfits may be in regular society, they can still be very out of place in certain places.   So just going to the store in suit I thin is a bad idea.  however,  The advantages is that there are any number of picnics, parades, other conventions, Halloween or other costume celebrations, etc. is where we have that context and so I say have at it.  The key is to see and ask the question: would it be out of place to have a costumed individual there.  If the answer is yes, I would suggest against it.  

Now that being said, planned events are a different story; But that is not really guerrilla anymore in the classic definition.

12:16 pm
January 5, 2012


Cencewolf

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This Poster Has Maxed Out The Forums

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Post edited 12:58 pm – January 5, 2012 by Cencewolf


*huffs*

(ok.. imagine a small puppet-figurine of president Obama moonwalking)

There is certainly nothing morally deficient, ethically wrong or criminal about fursuiting. (regardless of past discussion in relation to state statute outlining the concealment of ones identity)   

with all due respects, i must dis-agree with flip, who states "our objective is not to be out of place", when Guerrilla suiting, that is exactly the point. being "out of place" has a certain nystalgic value one can not obtain otherwise. it is why people act the way they do when somone engaged in fur suiting. the thing to remember about "guerrilla suiting" is that you will have both positive and negative reactions. if you are un-prepared to deal with them then do not pursue it.

Whether it is going to be "right or wrong" depends wholly on the person who is deciding to do it. for some it will be a fun, interesting, and positive experience while for others it will turn into a social nightmare. (simply put, personality will play a large role in the equation) 

The outcome of a guerrilla suiting expedition will undoubtedly vary widely. from a warm reception, camera crews, private photographs and a Q + A from onlookers with legitimate questions/intentions it could be a very progressive event. on the reverse it could be horrible, store/property management wanting to eliminate liability with your exploits may simply prefer your absence, and i am aware that there are those among us who simply couldnt handle being asked to leave and not dwell on it for years and years.. (hell i got chucked out of a chuckee cheese once, and kicked out of a bar aptly named kickers, take it with a grain of rocksalt and a sip of rum) 

I can how ever also agree that there are other ways of fur-suiting besides going "Guerrilla". and to be fair, i dont own a suit despite my search to find a good tailor who wants to work on my suit with 100% of their devotion. i only have a partial, and do infact wear it often, somtimes guerrilla.

(is the president still dancin thriller? i do hope so, i imagine it makes these posts slightly more tolerable)

-Cence

1:14 pm
January 5, 2012


mouring

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A Panther A Day

posts 114

My view of "Guerrilla" anything (including the fun "internet timed events" like freezing for a minute) is simple:

1. Don't be physically obstructive… You hurt your cause by physically being obstructive because you cause frustration and anger which doesn't advance your cause.

2. Don't be argumentative… If you are going to McD in full fursuit and you are asked to take your head off or leave. Leave. Don't kick up a fuss, but that doesn't mean you can't ham it up and get everyone to agree that it is unfair. But don't stand their and argue about your rights to dress that way because on the other side of the coin it is their property and courts have upheld their rights to kick out people for valid company policies.

3. Be aware of your surrounding… I've seen fursuiters (and other cosplayers with larger outfits) even at conventions lose track of who and what is around them. As a result, they knock people over or knock products off of tables, etc. Scope out your location outside of suit, locate places where your suit will cause grief, and avoid them when in suit.

4. Don't harass people that don't want to be harassed… There are people (like myself) that when I go out to a store I want to go in, and get what I want and get out. If you actively bother me when I'm in that mood, you pretty much give me a bad impression, and next time someone says something about "fursuiters" or "furries" I will remember that and vent about it. It is human nature.

*shrug* But this is my view. Be it right or wrong to others.

3:06 pm
January 5, 2012


Kurst Hyperyote

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Insane Coyote

posts 328

My personal opinion is "it depends"  You have to really think about if it’s a good idea or bad.

For gurrerilla fursuiting type scenarios these are some of my personal rules

1) Be aware of the laws and the problems the area. There are areas never ever think about doing. Like MoA too much of a sensitive hotspot.
2) Public spaces vs private space.  There is a lot of spaces people consider public are really private (like MoA) that can add additional rules and regulations by the wishes of the owner.
3) Be conscious of your surroundings and bring spotters. When things go bad don't linger just leave and if questions come up your spotter will explain it.
4) If the area has any type of costumers get permission. Those places are going to be very sensitive to you have a costume because it looks like you belong there. Amusement parks and other places.  You can still be “gurrerilla” with permission of the owner.
5) As with permission always double check before going out that the permission is still there and that the person can give out permission.  Sometimes employees who think things are cool don’t have the ability and right to give permission says it’s cool.  Then later on bam the real manager puts a stop on it.  This happens more often than you think.
6) Indoor places with food or drink you don't want to naturally go there. Not only fur in the food but food in the fur both is bad things. People really hate that.
7) If it's something that the local community works with some like Como Zoo. Don't do anything around the area. Even if you don't go on the grounds. People again will get confused or associate it as a part of the Zoo activities and will hurt relationship of the community with the company/organization.
8) A good time to do something gurrerilla is a birthday but be aware if you do it at a place of their work of the ramification of having suits and how it will look towards them.
9) Never say you are part of an organization.  When a person gurrerillas they are doing it themselves. They are not part of AC, LAFF, MNFurs, MFF, or any con or local group.  Really never even mention you are part of a great group just say you are doing it for the lulzs. 

 

Again there are times where gurrerilla fursuiting is fine you just have to be careful.

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11:51 am
January 13, 2012


Yarrick

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Moderator

posts 147

I mostly agree with what Mourning and Kurst have said on this thread; but for the most part "Gurella Fursuiting" in a private business puts me on edge in general. I'd just like to add a few specifics to the thread of what I've observed.

 

IMHO Places that should NEVER be considered to "public fursuit" at without WRITTEN CONSENT are:

-Malls (Most of these have VERY STRICT laws and ordinances about costuming)

-Zoos and Museums (As fun as it sounds, Most Zoos and Museums would view this as a distraction, and a pull away from their business.  We've ran into this issue in the past)

-Banks (Should be obvious here, There have been many robberies dealing with costumed characters)

-Jewelry, glassware, antique or other delicate stores (Tails plus China DO NOT mix…)

-Business Conventions (Unless they share a space with a Fandom con, which does happen XD)

-Professional Sports Games (Competing with the costumed mascot is not a wise idea.  Plus like malls most Stadiums have the "no mask" rule)

-Amusement Parks (Valley Fair, etc) (Its a controlled entry situation, and again you could be viewed as taking away business from the park, as with a Zoo, Museum, or Sports Event)

 

Places to Advise CAUTION, where I would still be uncomfortable with but you may or may not get escorted out of:

-Grocery and Department Stores (ones NOT part of a Mall)

-"Public" skyways, business Atriums

-Restaurants

-Minnesota State Fair (Unlike Renfest, the Fair has a lot of areas where a suit could impeed things)

-Bowling Alleys (While there are many fursuit bowling events, it is wise to call the bowling alley first)

-Municipal Sports Complexes with controlled entry (Ice Arenas, Golf courses, etc) (Like a bowling alley, with advanced notice these places could be acceptable to costumers.)

 

In general, use your head when suiting at a private business. This goes for any business I have not listed as well. Remember businesses are PRIVATE entities with their own set of regulations. The owner of the business has the right to kick out anyone at any time for any reason.

Most large businesses have security to prevent theft, property destruction and disserdants (IE a Drunk man wandering into Walmart harassing people)  In many of these situations, Costumers can be saw as the third type and be flagged for being escorted off the property.  I'm not here to say whether it's "right" of them to do so or not.  Just stating it as it is. 

I know many of those who view "calling up first" "ruins the magic of suprise".  Look at it this way.  If one manager knows you are coming and a few employees you are STILL going to be a surprise to the customers and your likelyhood of being accepted there and not being asked to leave goes up ten fold.

 

This all being said: In my mind, these places I have NO issues if I saw someone randomly show up in fursuit. 

-Public Parks

-Fandom Conventions where Costuming is acceptable (this includes Sci-Fi, Anime, Steampunk etc cons)

-Someone's House (if they were invited)

-A private party (again, invited)

-Outdoor events (Picnics, ETC)

-Events where Costuming is encouraged (Renfest, ETC)

-Nature preserves, Campsites.

-PUBLIC snow sledding/tubing hills (NOT ones with a controlled entry.  Places like the hill at Trapp Farm)

-Businesses during Halloween who have stated they accept costumers during this time.

-Costume balls/parties/contests/etc

 

Again, the real key is public vs private.  That line is sometimes not very clear, as the case with Como Park and Zoo.  The park is PUBLIC, but the zoo itself is a private entity with controlled access.  If your not sure if a place is a PUBLIC place or a PRIVATE entity ASK FIRST.

8:23 pm
January 14, 2012


coolfurriedude

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Posted A Few Times

posts 4

wow, did you copy that from somwhere or did you write that?

8:36 pm
January 14, 2012


SikeRedWolf

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Posting Is Important To Daily Furry Health

posts 90

coolfurriedude said:

wow, did you copy that from somwhere or did you write that?

I would guess he wrote it. Yarrik, Myself, Pro, Mouring, kurst and a few others are all pretty well known for being large repliers when its a serious topic xD.

 

Back on topic, I agree that I think calling in advance to ask management is the best way to go about it. You should focus on Guerrilla-ing the customers, and fellow patrons, not the group that owns the place.

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