Issues At Meets

[Kelossi]

Note: Careth and I have been chatting for a half-hour or so now and I do not believe he is trolling, but is simply strongly opinionated. For whatever that’s worth.

Psst

[Careth]

After a considerably long conversation with Kelossi via chat, which I felt ended amicably, I will say a few last things about my post here:

1. I apologize for using the term Nazi. What I should have used was fascist.

2. I stated an opinion that was radically different to the previous posts. I did this because I felt obliged to do so. My intention was never to become popular doing so. My intention was to be heard. Something I feel a forum is good for, namely all can be heard.

3. In reference to 1 and 2. I have been in, and known others who have been in, a number of forums. It is not uncommon to have a single, or a group of, what I would call “fascist mods” who do as they please, because they have access to forum editing tools. The concept “power corrupts” has never been truer. I hope that’s not the case here, but as a new member I won’t know till I know.

4. I do not believe it is in violation of any terms of use to state an opinion that contrasts with another user. I had logical reasoning behind my statements, and will be happy to explain that reasoning at length to any that are curious, as I have with Kelossi. While I never expect any individual person to just “accept” my beliefs as truth, I similarly do not just “accept” someone else’s beliefs as truth. I see that as mutual respect, and as such was considerably disheartened when the only responses this community had to my post were, well what they were.

I do not wish to endorse the monetary system, but I live in it. I do not wish to endorse the legal system, but I live in it. As such, I pay my bills and follow the law. I’d expect other mature adults to do the same. In instances where there is no legal or fiscal obligation, I follow my heart and I encourage others to do the same.

That’s all for now from me. Enjoy your lives.

Caw caw!

[Ridayah]

Hello Careth,

I’m glad to hear you got a chance to have a long discussion with one of our members about it! As one of those mods, and the one who raised the issue, I’d like to just add a note or two, if you don’t mind.

Firstly, we firmly believe in community. Those of us who are mods believe in a laid back approach – we mostly just try to keep things from getting out of hand (such as inappropriate posts where our younger members might see, as a simple example). When we do make posts and announcements like this, it is because this is the best way for us to reach our community. Many of them use the website and forums regularly, so it helps us know word of what is happening spreads to those who don’t via word of mouth. This is useful when an issue threatens group activities of the community.

Secondly, we of the mod team and staff not only welcome divergent opinions, we encourage it – we want to hear, in general, what our membership thinks! You can’t have a discussion without hearing more than one side. Such actions help communities understand each other’s and their own positions better. And that’s especially true when it comes to how our community is being run. Those of us whom are mods and staff serve the community, and we actively listen to feedback.

Having looked over the post, I think the reason others mentioned letting mods handle it was because we generally have the fullest picture of what happened and can explain why this was an issue – and to be simply blunt, we were flat out told by staff at one establishment that our members whom go there are a hair’s breadth away from being kicked out. This may be a mild inconvenience on individuals but has grave consequences for our group. We’re large, and it is already extremely hard to find locations that can serve us in terms of private room capacity, parking, hours, AND convenient location without charging significant amounts. (This is why a community center is something we’ve considered but cannot do at this time regularly – all those we’ve investigated charge for the space rental, and we can’t regularly afford those fees. We’re a volunteer, donation funded org and that means we have to be very careful with how we use our resources. In fact, many of the times we rent spaces for events, individual members have been paying the sometimes hundreds of dollars out of pocket for it.) If one such establishment ‘kicks us out’, as a group, it means all those other establishments will be less likely to accept our reservations and business. The actions of a few bad apples can have serious consequences for a group like ours.

If you would wish to discuss the issue further, or to understand a bit more about why we had to make this announcement and what issues we hope to avoid, I am more than happy to chat with you! Several of my contacts can be found in my user profile. Just as said above, we love hearing divergent opinions and talking with our members about their concerns.

[Zepaw]

I had thought these things were common sense but I’m glad the issue was brought up here so we could flush these conversations out. “The customer is always right” isn’t actually a law. Any business has right to refuse service if we ever become more trouble than we are worth.

[Careth]

Thank you for responding to my post Ridayah. I’m heartened to know the information you shared. You are correct in my ignorance of the numbers of members showing up at these events. If 5, 10, 20 or 40 people are showing up, those are considerably different situations. Reservations are the norm for groups over 5, or at the very least is considered “polite” and often times are required for groups over 10.

Your bi-weekly meetup is currently set at a Perkins in Minnetonka. If you claim locational HQ as Minnetonka for mnfurs.org, you can rent rooms at the community center there for $5 an hour.

Minnetonka-based non-profit groups and organizations: $5/hour

So that would be $30 per bi weekly for a 6 hour reservation. That seems much cheaper than forcing everyone to purchase something at Perkins, plus there are no wait staff, no expectations, etc. Just a meeting room for up to 40 people to hang out and talk in. If someone is handy with crafts, or someone wanted to bring some food from home, it could even be a party or pot luck atmosphere without offending the place you’re at.

Also, when you say your younger members, I was not aware this was a children’s organization. My understanding was this was an adult group. If you could clarify that for me I’d be very appreciative. Here or in a private message would be fine.

Thanks again.

Caw caw!

[Kelossi]

My understanding is that members of all ages are welcome, from young children (I know that some people at the picnic brought younger family along) to older members. I don’t believe that any expectations are made regarding demographics for attendance, unless the venue itself enforces it (say, at a bar or something.) So I wouldn’t call this a children’s group, and would assume that we average a late teen to mid-20s demographic.

For the record, I’m happy to meet with my fellow furs anywhere, but I actually prefer a restaurant setting for meetings, though I understand that things get very crowded with this group. There is something fun and energizing about the controlled-chaos of a restaurant though.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 12 months ago by Kelossi.

Psst

[Aerak]

Unfortunately, Careth, that’s not big enough for our group. Our biweekly furmeets are typically between 60-100 people. Our group is of a size that limits our available venues, hence why maintaining good relations with the restaurants we are already meeting at is so important to us. If you can find a community center that is regularly available every two weeks and can hold a group of our size, we are all for checking it out.

[Yarrick]

Ridayah and Aerak have already said a lot of good words about the how and the why we made this announcement. So I have nothing to add to that at the moment.

However I will bring up a tangent since it has been touched on: Yes we are always looking for Venues for both alternates to the Bi-Weekly meets and for other events (such as bowling nights, etc).

The two biggest hurdles with alternate Bi-Weekly meets (though there are more) is size of the Venue and availability.

Right now as Aerak mentioned the average size of our meets when you combine official and un-official is somewhere between 60 and 100 people at one time depending on the venue. Lately that has been split between the official meeting spot of Perkins and the unofficial side meet at Caribou.

This originally formed because Perkins is NOT big enough for our entire group on a full night… so Caribou (and later Applebees) became overflow locations if you will. Lately the meets at Perkins haven’t been bursting at the seams because more people are now at Caribou or leaving early for Applebees; which admitadely does relieve some stress on Perkins. HOWEVER it does create a lot more stress on Caribou and Applebees as a result.

On Availability: A lot of community centers close early in the evening on weekends so most of the ones I looked at would want us out by 7 or at the very latest 9pm which is when our meets are in full swing.

Historically we’ve been having people stay really late at Perkins but lately things have been tapering off around 11-12 pm. I don’t think it would kill us if we didn’t have a 24 hour location but we would want one that is atleast open till 11pm or Midnight.

Finding a meeting spot for 20, 30 or even 40 people is NOT difficult. Once you get over 50 it becomes incredibly difficult. Most of the venues that are larger (Banquet Halls (such as VFW and Lions Club) and Restaurants with Banquet Rooms) have two problems. First as Ridayah already mentioned is rental price and/or catering. A lot of these venues make their money off of catering IE a large event like a wedding or a family reunion where someone fronts all the money for EVERYONE to eat with all the food paid for up front. We cannot afford this.

In addition, a lot of these venues that do have banquet facilities are in VERY high demand, especially on weekends. So many weddings, graduations, family reunions etc that happen at these places means they have a very tight schedule. There was a place in Bloomington I looked at that was viable, except that if we wanted to book a meet there we would have to give them a three month notice, and we’d only be able to get that venue a handful of times a year- which ruled it out as a viable meeting spot even if they did have a really nice banquet room…

I will say this however. We have NOT given up. We are still looking for places to hold alternate bi-weekly meets even if they become a one time thing. If we do enough of these, or find a few places that are occasionally available just not every two weeks we might be able to work on some sort of Venue rotation. Right now, we have atleast one that we are looking at for an alternate meet night though sadly it is not nearly as centrally located as the Hopkins Perkins…

That in mind, we welcome our community to give the Events team suggestions of Venues for both future furmeets and alternate events. I’m going to start a new thread here soon which will outline what we are looking for. In the meantime, anyone that has any venue they’d like us to consider for an event e-mail the events team at “events at mnfurs dot org” We will gladly send someone out to check the place out :).

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[Twisted]

……Most of the venues that are larger (Banquet Halls (such as VFW and Lions Club) and Restaurants with Banquet Rooms) have two problems……

 

And to tangent onto the tangent, I wish to speak of a third issue, relatability.  Being an employee to a VFW I have the staff and 99.9% of the patrons know me by name, the while I could easily request the ballroom (at no cost!)  the general atmosphere and nature of the venue would not be conductive  to our community.  While this sounds like a stretch I can personally attest that not all establishments are going to be able to relate to our crowd (nor we them) and it is going to inevitably generate tension despite best intentions.  [and for full disclosure to Careth: I’m from St. Cloud, our venue locations are not geographically conducive to most metro furs on a regular basis 🙁 ]

[Snap E. Tiger]

Boo.

Furry Migration Staff (Volunteers) & MNFurs Board Member.

Posts on the MNFurs forums are of my own opinion and do not reflect that of MNFurs or chartered events unless otherwise stated.

http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Snap_E._Tiger

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