Home › Forums › MNFurs › Discussions › An Honest Discussion about the Drama Surrounding MNFURS
- This topic has 51 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 3 months ago by
Twisted.
-
AuthorPosts
-
The way I see it, MNFURS does good for the furry community but there needs to be more people doing public events that aren’t associated with MNFURS in any way.
Couldn’t agree with you more as this is true…We do need more people doing more events outside the norm of romps and other common events. In order to make this happen though we need people to step up. Not sure where to get started in hosting an event? Please, let’s talk!
T H € B | Z F [] X
RETIRING JUNE 2024
MNFurs Events Department Co-Head - Events are the main driving factors of the organization. Have an event you want brought to life? Let us know!
MNFurs Photography Department Staff - Photography and capturing moments is what we do at our events for our community. Let's chat about your photography needs!
Midwinter Frolic Staff ~ Photography - Midwinter Frolic is a fun winter camping event down at Whitewater State Park. Attending and have some photography ideas? Let's chat sometime!
Furry Migration Staff ~ Photography - A will be a wandering staff photographer at FM this year. Want a photo or two or more? I'll be around!
MNFurs ~ 501(c3) Non-Profit Organization
Bureaucracy is tough to deal with, most people can understand that. But what is not easy to understand is the broad not doing nearly anything for the group, I personally have tried to get meet ups in St. Cloud for half a year back in 2017 if I recall. for the 6 times I tried, only 2 of them were ever posted to MN furs, and those two times I had to ask Drake to post them. I don’t think that shows how inclusive to furs outside the Twin cities are treated, it shows that maybe that title of “old boys network” is more accurate. Ergo not many people will be willing to step up to volunteer or to run as candidates. Since the voting seems to be held in the twin cities causing only the more “loyal” furs to show up and vote for the same candidates year after year. Instead, how about making the votes available in some electronic form on the website so ALL furs in the state that wish to, can vote.A mind without purpose will wander in dark places
I don’t want to get too involved in drama, however I do want to comment on this:I personally have tried to get meet ups in St. Cloud for half a year back in 2017 if I recall. for the 6 times I tried, only 2 of them were ever posted to MN furs, and those two times I had to ask Drake to post them. I don’t think that shows how inclusive to furs outside the Twin cities are treated
I’ve had friends have this same difficulty running events within the Cities themselves, so this issue doesn’t really have anything to do with being outside the cities, it’s just a general issue.
Seems like a lack of volunteers willing to run events for MNFurs is not really the problem, so simply telling people to volunteer is not the solution. We now have two specific examples from two separate people explaining how they put significant effort into running events for MNFurs and gave up because they did not get the support they needed from MNFurs. From the sounds of it, there may be more examples out there. It doesn’t do any good to get new volunteers if you don’t keep them.So what is the support that MNFurs is not providing? For the most part, communication. The single biggest thing MNFurs can do to help people who are running events is to make sure that the existence of those events is being communicated to the community, particularly on channels that the event runner doesn’t normally have access to. The forums only go so far. While not a full solution, there are some changes to the site that could be made to help.
The way things are currently handled with regards to events is apparently a barrier for some people. Having new event runners going through somebody helps them, but at some point it is more effective to let the event runner handle the whole thing themselves. Adding a form to submit calendar entries to a moderation queue would help with that. Same with adding a form to submit announcement suggestions. That should help people get their events out there while still letting MNFurs control the end result. The event form just doesn’t cut it for some cases, particularly when somebody is running multiple events in series or when the event is complex.
For that matter, every potential resource an event runner might need could be a form. There are some resources being dedicated to a specific event that could be used for multiple events, and at some point it doesn’t make sense to keep starting over from scratch developing the same resources for new events.
Cons:
the board of directors looks like an old boys network, the organization tries to control the image of furries, only “family friendly fun” allowed, too much bureaucracy.
My main argument is that MNFURS doesn’t represent the furry community as a whole here in Minnesota. The way I see it, MNFURS does good for the furry community but there needs to be more people doing public events that aren’t associated with MNFURS in any way.
As the former head of events for MNFurs I’ll chime in with the same thing Drake has been saying; not enough people come forward and host events. I understand that the process of hosting an event may seem a bit too formal; but if you’d like to see that changed- maybe volunteer to help the Board and Drake to re-work the event charter. One thing we’ve always needed and never really got was a fresh perspective and a fresh pair of eyes. People don’t like Paperwork- they just want to have fun I get it. But…
In regards to the “Kids Only” thing: Yes MNFurs in general is a G rated community. Outside of kids there are also number of people who are NOT comfortable with Sexual situations. There is another group, Suit up Saturday, who runs Adult M rated Events which don’t have this, filter as it were applied. If this is your thing- maybe look them up.
But I enjoy having events that are for a General audience that I don’t have to look the other way when two half naked people in bondage gear start rubbing up against each other. Call me crazy, but those situations are incredibly uncomfortable for me and I’ve been old enough to drink for over a Decade. If that’s your crowd then they exist out there with SuS. So yeah I get pretty annoyed when I hear people wanting to make “MNFurs more Adult” for this reason.
That said if you want to run mature Non-Kink related activities such as a Pub Crawl night we’ve approached people about this before. And no one has really wanted to take the torch and run with it. Starting events is difficult unless you have a pre-exsisting base of followers. I get this. You might do a restaurant meet and have no one show up. It happens. Though, if you try it again you may get 2-3 curious people show up and if you keep it going; you’ll have more because they will see it was fun and invite their friends. Most people give up after the first failed event, and Ergo why we don’t have more smaller events outside of the Ovals and Picnics and such anymore. Its a big part of it.
-- MNFurs Photography Head--
Want a Photographer at an event? Want to help out with Photography at an event? PM me!
Did anyone mention anything sexual in previous post? No? Not all mature furs would use MN furs as a way for stuff like that. Though why would anyone help when they see the current state of things, and if more issues come that people had bad experience at events and at FM maybe they will see that Minnesotan furs are not the best when it comes to being inclusive and more. When someone goes to an event, and sees groups of furs huddled together, completely oblivious to the rest around them, how is that “inclusive?” I’ve attended a few years in a row and seen the same thing, yet when I try to approach, I am completely ignored. Not very inclusive I’ll say. So let me tell you all what it felt like being at Furry Migration 2018, it felt like being a ghost. If you were not in a fursuit you were nothing, even in cosplay or simply wearing ears or tail you still would not be accepted. All the suiters would huddle up and play with each other and refuse to do any interactions to non-suiters. It seemed they wanted to be in the spotlight, THEY wanted to be the attention seekers that wanted to get people to see the suits they paid thousands for but still look generic. I won’t go into detail what else happened that caused me to borderline leaving the community and HATE furries but all I’ll say is, get better staff, that can tell a cane with lantern is not a weapon when twats spinning sticks and more in fursuits can and WILL draw some blood. In short I do think MN furs and Furry migration are showing they are not up to par how to run things if they are sweeping issues under the rug and pretend nothing is wrong. That only prolongs the inevitable true showing. Like I have tonight appeared, so here you go MN Furs and Furry Migration here is your Christmas present of 2019, Blunt honesty on how poorly you all run things that will lead to your well deserved shutdown.Richard, I’m speaking as someone who has been in your very shoes. It sounds like someone sold you on the idea that the furry fandom is a very inclusive group and a great place to go to make friends. Unfortunately you did not experience that and you got a cold bucket of water in the face. The truth is that it is no better or worse than any other group of people. The people who call it an inclusive group have simply had positive experiences and there are plenty of people like you and me who have found it to not be inclusive.It’s understandable to feel angry after that, but you are not going to get anybody to accept you into the group by lashing out at them. As long as you are feeling angry at the fandom, you are not going to find a place in it. I’m also going to tell you a secret. It’s normal to be a furry and have no involvement with the fandom. So if you explored the community because you had an interest in some form of anthropomorphic characters, then you can continue to explore your interests without trying to find a place in the community. If the only reason you explored the community was because you wanted a place to belong and the concept of anthropomorphic characters was not really an interest to you, then you may want to consider looking elsewhere. I personally was interested in furry long before I ran into the fandom, and it’s still a major interest in my life even though I have decided the fandom itself is not.
While MNFurs does have some issues like any other organization, none of the issues you brought up are exclusive to MNFurs. Furthermore, you did not raise any points they can take action on or offer any suggestions to fix anything. Even the staff not treating your prop the same as the fursuiter props is just one of those things that happens and is nothing more than a learning experience that I think has already been recognized. So once again some advice from somebody who knows what you’re feeling from experience, for your own health and well-being, let it go and move on.
I do commend you for coming out and speaking about your experience Richard. But I must agree that aggression is not needed, yes, it is justified for what has occurred but some will see it as a troll post or as a random who’s letting anger get to them. On the other hand, I’m noticing how most of the board and maybe even Furry Migration Staff have been tip toeing around this topic, repeating the same things in different ways, “step up and volunteer, help MN Furs and Furry Migration, etc..” Even when people are voicing their reason why they don’t anymore. Is this topic too hard to understand or do you, the board simple want this gone and everyone to “Move on”?A mind without purpose will wander in dark places
Hey Paul aka Twisted here, like Aerak and Drake one of the staff of MNFurs. I barely post so this brief introduction is for those who don’t know me. I’ve been involved in the community for almost 10 years, I am the acting Treasurer recently starting my 4th year and was elected to the Board of Directors last year.I wanted to take the moment and say i’m working on a long form reply to talk about the issues brought up in this discussion. Over the last 6 weeks I’ve been talking to staff and former staff. Hope to have my facts and opinions organized later this week.
That said, in regards to Biohazard’s most recent concern that the board wants this to “move on” that’s not the case. The board moves slow this time of year with the Holidays, FurFest, and we were going through a candidate selection process for chair of FM. To accuse us of tiptoeing around this is fair from a certain point of view. When your the subject of discussion and accused of being the problem it’s debatable if a swift reply is appropriate or if your just being emotional and thus accused of controlling the narrative.
At a time like this researching in the background while letting everyone have their thoughts expressed is more my style. To take as objective a look at this as possible and figure out how to go forward in a way that works the best for the organization, its volunteers, and the community.
-
This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Twisted.
I was going to just stay silent after my posts, but I think it would be appropriate to comment. I am curious what you will have Twisted [I will only call you by your other name if given permission] as I have been in direct contact with “Richard” [not certain thats a RL name or alias] and been told their experiences first hand aside from here. Not to mention, Bio’s concern of Tiptoeing around the issue which, I must admit I initially was concerned with as well however look at things a little more thoroughly and wish to be certain to see what you have to add to help clear the air as it were. I am aware there have been several behind the scenes things taking place such as the upcoming election. Some of the posts, I did interpret as “suck it up or step up” which may not be the intention, however that was how they initially came off. After my 20 year career, I try to be more a “out of the box” thinker, so remained silent to see where this lead. Thus far, I have seen a few posts [like yours] that give the impression of sincerity, so you have sparked my interest in regard to what you will have to share. My compliments to all that have been honest yet not acting like a blasted troll, this entire discussion as a whole has been educational, and if I can provide outsider points of view that may be helpful feel free to ask me.Bureaucracy is tough to deal with, most people can understand that. But what is not easy to understand is the broad not doing nearly anything for the group, I personally have tried to get meet ups in St. Cloud for half a year back in 2017 if I recall. for the 6 times I tried, only 2 of them were ever posted to MN furs, and those two times I had to ask Drake to post them. I don’t think that shows how inclusive to furs outside the Twin cities are treated, it shows that maybe that title of “old boys network” is more accurate. Ergo not many people will be willing to step up to volunteer or to run as candidates. Since the voting seems to be held in the twin cities causing only the more “loyal” furs to show up and vote for the same candidates year after year. Instead, how about making the votes available in some electronic form on the website so ALL furs in the state that wish to, can vote.
===================================================================================
“I personally have tried to get meet ups in St. Cloud for half a year back in 2017 if I recall. for the 6 times I tried, only 2 of them were ever posted to MN furs, and those two times I had to ask Drake to post them”
Alrighty, time to throw my two rusty cents into the conversation. First off, as someone else who hasn’t been active on this site in nearly 3 years now, introductions are in order. I’m Jac, I am a former board member and the former webmaster for this site. To be honest, I am personally at fault for the issues regarding the 2017 posts. 2017 was a crap year for me. I got diagnosed with a disease that without me knowing was degrading my physical health to the point where I couldn’t even operate a vehicle safely. That being said, that’s not an excuse for my lack of webmaster…ing on MNFurs. Knowing I was struggling, we did search out for individuals that could come on and provide additional support for the site, but they wanted to re-create it from the group up which would have lost our registered userbase. I disagreed with that idea and they walked away. That left me pretty much the only person at the helm, as the only other knowledgeable person was busy running Furry Migration.
In the fall of 2017, I quit my toxic employer and spent the next three months recuperating while being unemployed. By the time my seat was up for re-election, I decided it would be best for me to step off the board and also step down from my department head duties at Furry Migration. Currently, excluding the Furry Migration chairmen, there is only one board member left from 2017 currently still on the board and two if you include FM chairmen. Things change over time with our without people knowing. I ended up spending my entire savings on medical treatment to the point of being down to my last $50, but eventually, I stabilized, got a fulltime job again, and am slowly even three years later getting back into the swing of things. The point is that the board and people in the organization today are not in the same positions and responsibilities that they were 3 years ago. For my inaction in 2017, I am truly sorry.
“Since the voting seems to be held in the twin cities causing only the more “loyal” furs to show up and vote for the same candidates year after year. Instead, how about making the votes available in some electronic form on the website so ALL furs in the state that wish to, can vote.”
Okay, I also want to weigh in on this one. In the State of Minnesota, every non-profit organization needs to have a set of bylaws in order to operate. Not every fur who lives in Minnesota can vote, in fact, you don’t even need to live in Minnesota. In order to be eligible to vote, a person needs to complete a minimum of 20 hours of volunteer work for the organization either with MNFurs, Furry Migration, and/or other events I’m not recalling. The bylaws by which governs MNFurs and set this rule can be found here. It can also be found by clicking on “MNFurs Operational Documents” at the bottom of the website.
For those who were not able to vote in person, we gave plenty of opportunity to do absentee voting. In fact, you can find that page here under Section 3.
We will provide off site absentee ballots starting on March 2nd, 2019. To get an absentee ballot the voter must have enough hours and request a vote by email to [email protected] by the voter themselves. Ballots must be receive before 7:00pm March 13th, 2019.
One of the furs off the top of my head who voted last year lives an hour and a half away in Wisconsin. He’s amazing and helps run our social media on the Furry Migration side of things. He took advantage of the absentee voting and emailed in his ballot.
In conclusion, I’m going to state the same things that other staff and volunteers have already said because they’re true. The first thing I recommend is to be persistent. Stuff happens in life that can cause mishaps and miscommunication, but if people stop hearing about issues, the issues never get fixed. Secondly, VOLUNTEER! A lot of folks who have been volunteering for over 10-20 years are ready to “retire” and let the young pups take over. The problem is that there is nobody really stepping up to the plate. This isn’t an issue unique to MNFurs or Furry Migration, but volunteer organizations in general. I hear from other furry conventions that they’re struggling to keep some of their departments running and end up having one person doing multiple large tasks. That is what ultimately burned me out in 2017, and I don’t want to see that happen to anyone else. The only way to grow and improve as an organization is for more people to help out and volunteer. If you see a need, go and fill it. We’re not perfect, I’m not amazing, and contrary to what my icon/avatar shows, I’m only human.
Be the change you want to see.
Jac
Jac, first I wish to say, I hope your health improves if it has not as yet. Secondly, I agree with your statement “Stuff happens in life that can cause mishaps and miscommunication, but if people stop hearing about issues, the issues never get fixed.” as this is IMO one of the concerns many possess. Be they accurate, or perhaps only viewing one part of a multi-part concern, discussing it is always key. Not just with MNF, or FM, but among the community in general. If I were not a distance away [WV] or stuck relying on a cane to get around, I would love to assist heh.May your days ahead, be filled with more cheer than drama.
I was not aware of the links for people who were absent during the vote Jac, I do not believe those were every mentioned in post, but I could be wrong. But that should be mentioned more instead of stating or giving the feeling “Voting can only be done in the twin cities”. Like JB has said most post on this topic have been educational. Although communication from staff about how to tackle issues would be helpful instead of being told the same things like “volunteer “ and “move on” A issue that continues to be present will someday be handled instead of one that only gets ignored, leading to some kind of negative event.A mind without purpose will wander in dark places
There isn’t anybody in the world with more opinions about MNFurs than me. I’ve just learned not to share most of them because, well, nobody ever cared to discuss them. The only time people talked to me was to tell me the way things were. Nobody even bothered to find out why I was angry after MNFurs incorporated, because they assumed that they knew or simply didn’t care. (This was the time when I was more like Richard. I think you’re still reading, I’m honestly trying to save you some pain there.)The fact is, you can’t change opinions with opinions. And the fact that we have two sides repeatedly telling each other the same thing over and over again underscores this. So let’s see if we can come up with some actual hard data here instead. You guys have most of the data required, so add this to Twisted’s research list, but I think you need to show actual volunteer data.
You are claiming that you are unable to get new volunteers or at least it’s very difficult. If this is true, then the number of individual volunteers should show little increase over time. It would also be worth looking at the total number of hours and how much is going into the various parts of the organization. (How many are Furry Migration, other conventions, community events, administration and so on.)
It would also be worthwhile to look at event data. Are there more or less events being run over time? Has the variety of events changed? How many people were running events?
I do have one data point that I’ve observed. Most of the referrals for Werecamp registrations came from the Furry Migration website, not MNFurs. This in itself doesn’t necessarily mean anything as I suspect there are more eyes on the convention, but I’ve noticed a few things around the forums that when put together make a bit of a trend. There has been a shift in the way people speak. For example, comparing things to other conventions instead of other communities. People used to gauge interest in new events for the community, but now they are more often discussing new events for the convention. It’s a subtle shift and not by any means a definitive fact.
If you haven’t figured out my theory by now, I suspect that Furry Migration has soaked up the community’s time and talent like a big sponge. A convention can never be satisfied with the number of volunteers it gets, and since the preparations are pretty much year-round, that means a lot of people only deal with the convention. Since Furry Migration and MNFurs are not separate organizations, it’s very easy for the convention to draw away the attention of leadership and cause them to not really notice the extent that the community might be affected by talent redistribution.
If the number of volunteers has been increasing this entire time, then getting more volunteers isn’t the problem. (Now that’s a hypothesis that you can test!)
If you haven’t figured out my theory by now, I suspect that Furry Migration has soaked up the community’s time and talent like a big sponge
FM is getting harder to find volunteers/staff for as well. My own department, which consisted of five staff since I joined, up through 2018, three for 2019, and currently only two for 2020. And I know a lot of other departments are experiencing the same thing
-
This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
