Let’s Talk About Mask Laws

[Ringer]

Because fursuiting inherently involves “hiding your identity”, there’s always a concern that we’ll run into issues with the local mask laws. I’d love to have a discussion about what those laws are and how much they actually affect us.

To start, here’s what the state of Minnesota has to say (emphasis mine):

MINNESOTA Statutes, Chapter Criminal Code, Section 609.735
609.735 Concealing identity.
A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor. (HIST: 1963 c 753 art 1 s 609.735; 1971 c 23 s 73; 1986 c 444;1995 c 30 s 1)

The obvious question here is what constitutes being “incidental to amusement” or “entertainment”. I’d suggest that an informal furry outing, as long as everybody behaves, is probably safe, but I can’t say for sure.

I can offer some anecdotal evidence in that we’ve never run into “real” trouble in the numerous times we’ve suited in MN parks (although those were all quite awhile ago). My assumption is that they follow the state law as well since they’re considered public.

[Mouring]

The statute applies to true public spaces and commons areas. e.g. Sidewalks, parks, etc. Where people get confused is they assume places like fast food restaurants, malls, amusement parks, and other commercial establishments are also “public space.” Which is untrue. They may be public space in the fact that it isn’t a restricted space (e.g. office building), and that there are building codes relating to health and safety, but those establishments are allowed to make more restrictive rulings (e.g. Mall of America’s “no mask” rules).

Also, keep in mind that cities / counties can apply more restrictive rules as well. I refer you to the anti-nerf gun rules at last year’s fall picnic (law states “any projectile weapon” are banned IIRC).

In general, if you are in public parks or common spaces you shouldn’t be harassed unless there has been a recent police event or you are on the edge of breaking other laws (e.g. loitering, harassment, etc). As for commercial establishments the best advice is to discuss it with a manager. Some places (e.g. bowling alleys) the manager may allow it, and other times they may feel uncomfortable or concerned. Be respective to them as they are just trying to make a living like the rest of us (I’ve seen this in other fan groups where they demand that they have “rights” in such places).

As well as use common sense… Don’t walk up to a Brinks security truck, don’t get in the middle of police activity, don’t hang around bank front doors, or ATM machines, etc. They may not be technically illegal under the law, but they will draw unwanted attention that will bring you in direct conflict.

And as always, if you are in the wrong or right. Rarely is it worth the legal hassle to argue with an officer. Be polite, ask directed questions, and be willing to thank the officer and move on. And if you feel the officer is wrong ensure to send a letter to the precinct with your concerns.

Note IANAL… I’ve had some law classes and I’ve worked 9 years for a federal level court system. So I’ve spent time in the legal ditches.

[Ringer]

Excellent points. While fursuiting is all about having fun and being goofy and making people happy, a good underlying rule to abide by is “don’t be a nuisance”, because that’s when you risk getting into trouble. Being polite and respectful if you do end up dealing with security or law enforcement also goes a loooong way.

Is anyone aware of more restrictive rules that may be in place at a local level? It’d be helpful to include those here for dissection and future reference.

[Sike]

I cant stand ‘guerrilla’ fursuiting. I believe people need to have permission or any kind of misunderstandings can happen. A good example, though cosplay, is last year at Nebraskon, a person wearing a resident evil STARS uniform went to get money out of his bank. Went fine, was nice, goes to leave 4 squad cars with guns pointed at him because he forgot to take out the wooden gun on his side. It all ended well mind you, they all had a laugh about it. But imagine someone doesnt understand what is going on, and people show up, hidden behind masks and costumes, that on the WHOLE as a bad reputation because of idiotic media? I mean thats an extreme and I admit that. But still, even as a CJ major, when people dont announce theyre going to be in costume any number of things can happen. People can confuse you for working for somewhere, or being creeped out (especially since most suitors dont speak in suit). Youre hiding behind it.

I feel the law itself is directed more so at people in organizations for an event (such as theater groups ect). Not just a regular guerrilla walking down the street.

Wut o.o

Im Sike AND Banana

[Ringer]

I cant stand ‘guerrilla’ fursuiting. I believe people need to have permission or any kind of misunderstandings can happen.

I don’t disagree – at least trying to give a location a heads-up before suiting there portrays us as more responsible and respectful. At the same time, I’m interested to know whether it’s truly necessary or just a formality. I suspect it becomes more and more important as the number of participants grows.

A good example, though cosplay, is last year at Nebraskon, a person wearing a resident evil STARS uniform went to get money out of his bank. Went fine, was nice, goes to leave 4 squad cars with guns pointed at him because he forgot to take out the wooden gun on his side.

It’s slightly different, though. In a fursuit you’re totally concealed and so, as Mouring said above, common sense would dictate that one wouldn’t go anywhere near a bank or other sensitive area while in suit.

But imagine someone doesnt understand what is going on, and people show up, hidden behind masks and costumes, that on the WHOLE as a bad reputation because of idiotic media?

I wonder if sometimes we assume that we have a worse reputation than we actually do because we spend so much time on the internet. Offline the reaction to fursuits skews heavily toward positive, at least based on the times I’ve suited in public. The vast majority of people loved us.

People can confuse you for working for somewhere, or being creeped out (especially since most suitors dont speak in suit). Youre hiding behind it.

This is one reason handlers are so important. Not only are they watching for environmental hazards but they’re essentially acting as PR for the costumers.

Again, all of these thoughts are in the context of being in a public common space. Obviously the rules change once you enter a privately-owned area.

[Aerak]

“I wonder if sometimes we assume that we have a worse reputation than we actually do because we spend so much time on the internet. Offline the reaction to fursuits skews heavily toward positive, at least based on the times I’ve suited in public. The vast majority of people loved us.”

That is not a fair assessment.  The truth is, most people who have a problem with what you are doing are not going to come up and tell you to your face.  If you don’t know a person and they are putting you out of your comfort zone, why would you risk anything by confronting the person, because, for all you know that person could be a complete nut bag.  Better to just avoid them.

When I first made a fursuit when I was 19 and had one made by Mixed Candy shortly thereafter, I was very into guerrilla fursuiting.  I would go out to parks and malls and thoroughly believed that it was a good thing.  I was giving people something special, something out of the ordinary that they could talk about around their dinner table.  However, years later I came to see that there are many wackos in our society (some of them furries), and the truth is I have no doubt that while granted many people enjoyed what I was doing, many people also did not.  I also believe that guerrilla fursuiting damages the reputation of whatever furgroup is local to the person doing the fursuiting.  Many “fursuit performers” are just kids looking for a thrill.  Not everyone who fursuits takes it seriously or follows the same etiquette.  So guerrilla fursuiting has the potential of causing a lot of damage – at least in my opinion; yours may very.

There are PLENTY of opportunities to fursuit for events and for charities, and as MNFurs grows, even more fursuiting possibilities will come.  And when you fursuit for an event, people going to that event already know the sort of thing to expect, and so there is much less chance of accidentally creeping anyone out or making them feel uncomfortable.

[Ringer]

@Aerak said:
That is not a fair assessment.  The truth is, most people who have a problem with what you are doing are not going to come up and tell you to your face.  If you don’t know a person and they are putting you out of your comfort zone, why would you risk anything by confronting the person, because, for all you know that person could be a complete nut bag.  Better to just avoid them.

That’s a valid point. So then the question becomes: at what point is it considered “guerrilla” fursuiting, and is there any way to make it more legit? I’m making a broad assumption that we’re not there make other people uncomfortable, but I don’t know how it can be completely prevented short of us not being there at all.

I really appreciate all the discussion on this, so thanks to everyone who’s contributed so far!

[Aerak]

“That’s a valid point. So then the question becomes: at what point is it considered “guerrilla” fursuiting, and is there any way to make it more legit?”

Ah, now that is truly a deep question.  Can we as a community ban guerrilla fursuiting?  Should we ban guerrilla fursuiting?  Is guerrilla fursuiting “legit” or is it damaging?  My opinion is, despite myself cringing at the term, I think a ban on doing it would demand concrete proof that it is always a bad thing – which is NOT the case.  I think the guerrilla fursuiting can be summed up pretty simply: Experiences may very.  First of all:

Is surprise fursuiting (I hate the word “guerrilla” and I’ve used it way too much) at private property okay? Generally not.  High risk of freaking people out.  High risk of freaking out the management of the property (they don’t know you and you are a liability), and high risk being escorted off the property.  If that property happens to be Mall of America and you want to show up unannounced there – oh hell no.  Bad, bad, bad idea.  You want to show up at a gamestop unannounced that you know is having a costume contest – that’s probably going to be okay. So surprise suiting is situational and depended on where you are doing it.

Is surprise fursuiting in a public space okay?  I personally believe it is a matter of professionalism that makes the difference between bad public image of furries, and an awesome and magical experience.  Let’s say as an example you are fursuiting at a park (I know some great local parks for this, btw), and you are acting very professionally – (yes, profession furry – I know how rediculous this sounds).  Let’s say you are in character the entire time, stay away from people who are obviously weirded out, and have a crew of well dressed handlers to act as your PR spokesmans.  It can go extremely well.  In other words it’s “guerrilla” but it’s also reasonably well planned on your end.  Speaking of, I really should make a fursuiting at the park event in the near future.  Okay, so on the other end of the spectrum, let’s say it’s just a fursuiter and a friend showing up at that park.  The friend, to use an extreme, is dressed very goth, and the fursuiter is just doing it to “act out” and be “different and unique”… you know, that teen phase some people go through where all they want to do is stand out and get reactions from people.  It’s those sorts of people that are going to get more of a negative reaction and might do a little bit of damage to the furry fandom – at least on a micro local level.

So based on situation and people involved, surprise fursuiting can go either way.  We can’t, nor should we tell people – “no don’t do it”.  Instead I believe in educating members of our community on how to do it right.

[Ringer]

Is surprise fursuiting (I hate the word “guerrilla” and I’ve used it way too much) at private property okay? Generally not.  High risk of freaking people out.  High risk of freaking out the management of the property (they don’t know you and you are a liability), and high risk being escorted off the property.  If that property happens to be Mall of America and you want to show up unannounced there – oh hell no.  Bad, bad, bad idea.  You want to show up at a gamestop unannounced that you know is having a costume contest – that’s probably going to be okay. So surprise suiting is situational and depended on where you are doing it.

Totally agree. For the purposes of the discussion I’ve been assuming we’re either a) in a public space or b) have explicit permission to be in a non-public space. So it’s less a matter of legality in that regard.

Is surprise fursuiting in a public space okay?  I personally believe it is a matter of professionalism that makes the difference between bad public image of furries, and an awesome and magical experience.  Let’s say as an example you are fursuiting at a park (I know some great local parks for this, btw), and you are acting very professionally – (yes, profession furry – I know how rediculous this sounds).  Let’s say you are in character the entire time, stay away from people who are obviously weirded out, and have a crew of well dressed handlers to act as your PR spokesmans.  It can go extremely well.  In other words it’s “guerrilla” but it’s also reasonably well planned on your end.

It’s not ridiculous at all! This is exactly the kind of situation I would prefer to be in. I felt awkward just reading your other example.

Speaking of, I really should make a fursuiting at the park event in the near future.

It’s funny that you bring that up… I’m trying to do exactly that ) and would love any input you can provide. What’s your experience with getting in touch with the park beforehand?

So based on situation and people involved, surprise fursuiting can go either way.  We can’t, nor should we tell people – “no don’t do it”.  Instead I believe in educating members of our community on how to do it right.

Thanks again for the response. Your first example is an excellent benchmark and the kind of experience I have in mind when I talk about this sort of thing.

[Mouring]

In common or public space, I agree with Aerak. The critical thing for a fursuiter is to have handlers that may be playful, but they are articulate and dressed mostly respectable (no need for the three piece suit, but wearing bagging pants around the ankles with a “f**k you” T-shirt maybe too far to the other side =) is the best thing you can have. If you have a few then you can keep the fursuiter back and allow the handlers to approach, chat, and feel out those people in the space before the fursuiter enters what could be an uncomfortable situation.

It is the abruptness of something that isn’t “everyday” that freaks people out the most and makes them leery.

Those handles also can be quiet and just mix with the crowd and speak when when they hear “I wonder if I could get my picture taken with them?” or “I wish I could give them a hug.”

This doesn’t just apply to fursuiting, but applies to cosplay in general. A good handler knows how to spot trouble, can defuse it or distract from it, or reroute around it. If for no other reason than to reduce the damage of a $500 – $5,000 costume.

As for the question of bad light… If I’m in a group of people it always comes out that I do photography (higher chance of my mom or dad’s wife is around). And so I tend to show off some of my captive wildlife shots then phase over to SciFi/Fantasy/Anime conventions, then over to fursuiter pictures. The majority of the comments I get are extremely positive. I’ve only had a few whose brain can’t handle fursuiters (mind you they also are confused about cosplay in general and tend to repeat.. “So this is for a play, right?” over and over). And if people don’t seem interested I move on.

I think what tends to be the “bad light” is when person A forces their love of [INSERT_HOBBY_HERE] on person B. And that person now relates that hobby to that person that “wouldn’t shut up” and it taints them.

[Snap]

I like Doritos.

Furry Migration Staff & MNFurs Board Member.

Posts on the MNFurs forums are of my own opinion and do not reflect that of MNFurs or chartered events unless otherwise stated.

http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Snap_E._Tiger

[Mjosi]

So putting this out there because I live in a rather small town (With seven bars, it’s kinda scary after dark) and spend the majority of my time at a small local coffee shop, and just wandering around since the town is rather small and old and very nice generally.  I had wanted to work on “Playing” my part in my suit by wandering around town with a couple of my friends basically to get the feel of her.

I was also considering talking to the owner of the coffee shop I frequent, since she’s a really nice lady that I talk to often.  I am worried though, about maybe setting off a bad face for the furry and specifically, suiting community by getting used to suiting in this manner, especially after reading the opinions and views stated here.

I really wanted to get a suit to play in quite a lot around town, I have a few other friends in Anoka who want to get suits and go suiting with me, so I’d thought it might be fun (Bringing handlers too, of course) but I am a bit worried about doing so at this point ^^;

[Ringer]

Howdy Vintage – you raise some interesting points and because I’m not familiar with your town it’s hard to give you a definitive answer. I do have a couple thoughts, though:

First, it doesn’t hurt to talk to people about what you’re thinking about doing. Posting here is great, and talking to locals to get a sense of how they’ll respond isn’t a bad idea either.

Second, I don’t know how far away you are, but I’d highly recommend keeping an eye on any fursuit-friendly events happening here in the metro. We’ve had good luck with the romps that we’ve done (and will surely be doing more), but any time you can suit is an opportunity to familiarize yourself with the suit and your character.

You might also find that once you’ve gone suiting with others once or twice, you’ll have a better idea of what to expect when trying to organize an outing in your own town.

I hope that’s helpful!

[Drake M.]

Hi there, Vintage!

 

With any city or small town, each place of business is going to have their own set of rules and each listed rules has its procedures.  With this in mind, if you decide to the owner of the Coffee Shop you visit often, respect the rules if given the green light.

You mentioned wandering town too and all I will say there is be mindful of your own safety.

There is also mask laws as well which is another topic entirely with its own slew of discussions…Let’s pretend you are given the green light with said coffee shop, be respectful of this as well and stick with your own party of friends and do not disrupt others.

There is also the matter of guerrilla fursuiting which again, a separate topic, but just thought I would briefly share my input…This involves openly going into an establishment and fursuiting with no prior planning or permission.  My rule of thumb with any activities like this is that you do not do it period.  This is a high risk factor as the establishment does not know of your intentions while in suit…This can also end up getting one into a lot trouble.  This type of fursuiting is also common sense because again, you just don’t do it.

I have been asked in the past if I wanted to visit a random location in suit and I refuse…I want nothing to do with fursuit activities if there has been no permission and planning.

It sounds like you would like to get involved of a fursuit-friendly event…As Ringer pointed out, keep watch on the forums for any upcoming events.  We usually have events pop up that are fursuit-friendly (ex. bowling).

On some final notes, myself and others have ran a few fursuit romps in the past around the metro.  If you have any questions from logistics and anything else, feel to ask.

This is my input for this post…Please forgive me if some information in my post sounds critical, but just thought I would share my views.  =)

~ Drake M.

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[Mjosi]

First to Ringer;

I have trouble talking to people that I don’t know, but I am rather well known in my town as when I am spoken to I am rather friendly.  I’ve thrown the idea around with a few different groups of people in the town (All around 15-25 years of age) and everybody I’ve talked to has pretty much asked to go with me, and a couple gained interest in the community because I apparently make it sounds very open and fun ^^;

As far as planned events, I know this sounds silly, but I am rather shy about going and meeting up with people (or furs) I don’t know, I know a few in passing from AD but I really only know R3n and he’s not a super active member either ^^;  the idea of going out to hang out with people I don’t know (No matter how friendly) scares me, especially before I get the feel of Vinny, I at least want to feel a bit more confident before I meet with people, simply for self-conscious reasons ^^;  I do plan on going to some in the future though (Most likely after Furry Migration, which I will be going to)

It’s not so much that I want to organize mass outings or get-togethers, I really just want to go have fun with my friends, more of a “I would like to go out and play with my friends as Vintage, and I’m kind of scared of being that one fur that screws everything up”

 

And now for Drake;

I am going to ask Judy before doing anything, of course!  I wasn’t planning on going inside anywhere else, the rest of the town is antique stores (I know they wouldn’t want a strange girl in a fursuit in their shops) and bars (NOT A SAFE IDEA) I had just had the idea of walking around town, maybe walking a few of the trails by the river, playing around with my friends and getting the feel of Vinny ^^

Do you have any suggestions on how to approach Judy with this proposition and/or any questions or things I might want to ask her about if she gives me the go-ahead on it?

I don’t think I would be “Guerrilla” suiting, since I have no desire to go into any establishments unless it’s for a get together or I have a reason ^^  I only ask about my coffee shop because I would love to be out suiting and be able to go in and order myself an iced chai and such ^^

Same as I told Ringer, I believe Furry Migration will be the first Furry get together type thing I go to, as being around strangers terrifies me ^^; (I’ll be going to con with my best friend Keaton, R3n, and another of our friends, so con doesn’t scare me as much)

I would actually very much like to talk with you on that once I get more of a feel for things, as I do have immense interest in suiting with groups and going to/helping set up or plan get togethers.

What you’ve said is not critical, quite on the contrary, I find it quite useful ^^  Thank you both for replying, I’m sorry if I sound harsh in my own reply, written word is not my best skill, and I tend to come off as a little too blunt ^^;

[Author]

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